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July 17, 2012

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Fannies and Willies

See I think that's the thing, I think people would have laughed out of sheer mindlessness at your 'I hope you die' comment, and for exactly the same reason as they laughed at the Sep 11th jab. It's unexpected and eschews any notion of a borderline and so could be perceived as edgy and daring, and the crowd sides with the comedian out of mindlessness and/or out of fear that they may be the next target. I think it's a group or majority rules mentality that takes a courageous individual to stand up to (not sure whether I would but I hope I would).

As for the 'cunt' thing, surely it's supposed to be insulting and therefore the more specific it is, the better, if you intend to insult and offend, of course. I would use it for both, but I'd generally reserve variants of the penis for men, for example, and you rarely call girls 'bastards'. There are obvious parallels between the whole 'meaning' thing we mentioned before. If a term becomes so generic in its usage, it loses its meaning and its impact. A bit like 'wanker'. Must admit in school I had to compose myself a little after hearing it yelled out over the playground, but now it's fairly innocuous. And I don't think it's just age. Anyway, just call everyone fannies and willies. Much better.

Ed more than 2 years ago

cunt

Also I think it's really educational for people to remember that cunt can be for men or women. Easties and the British use cunt/Fotze for men and women. Young Germans and Americans only use it for women. I think that makes it really misogynistic. Although I have stopped using the word so much. There was a time when I used it seven times a blog. But now I save it for special occasions.

Jacinta more than 2 years ago

rapist cunts

Nobody's ever gonna meet an American and think "rapist cunt." I am the most Anti-American person I know, and even I only think the words "rapist cunt" when people do stuff like making jokes about cheerleaders, laughing about fucking a girl in her sleep, stuff like that. No, even then, I don't think the word "rapist cunt." I think "Rapey American."

I don't think they clap and laugh to my wish that more Americans died on Sept 11th. I think it's funny coz it's such an extreme reaction to being irritated by their annoying behaviour. I can't watch it again, coz I hate the sound of my voice, so I can only watch my YouTube videos with the sound down. But isn't it the cunt-ometer? Don't I call Bin Laden a dickhead? I think it's just about okay. And if someone had heckled me, and gone: people died, you bitch! And I'd said: I hope you die....then everyone would say I'd gone too far. And plus it wouldn't even be funny. Rape is only funny coz it's acceptable.

Jacinta more than 2 years ago

Sep 11th contd

Naughty would suggest it's subversive and that it challenges some form of established behaviour. Such jokes do nothing. They merely victimise the most vulnerable. It's the laziest kind of comedy. It's the bully in the playground, completely incapable of empathy.

I wouldn't complain about any joke. 'Complain' is the wrong word. I may say something, but I'd be unlikely to heckle. Heckling normally turns you into the object of the comedian's vitriol and the subject of the audience's voyeuristic delight.

The audience claps and laughs to your wish that more Americans had died on September 11th. But what do they want? They want more wives wishing they could climb down the telephone lines to be with their husbands seconds before the line goes dead and the tower falls. Would a higher death toll make it all funnier? Do they not spare a second to think, 'how would I feel if that was my husband, or wife, or kid?' Regardless if we're talking about Sep. 11th, rape or Fukishima, the empathy argument stands. The rapey comedian you mentioned probably needs to have a good sit down and imagine being sodomised for half an hour or so, along with all the mental and physical trauma that goes with it.

Given your begging would have no measurable effect on the likelihood of future terrorist attacks, but it certainly fuels an anti-american sentiment which biases opinions and everyday interactions. Imagine an impressionable individual reading your article who meets a young american man tomorrow. The first thought will be 'rapist cunt'. We all have a responsibility for the words that leave our mouths and minds. Deny or reject that and we're left with no meaning, for our words, nor for ourselves. You end up an empty shell spouting off vitriol in the hope of attention.

As for the 'care more' thing, no, of course we shouldn't care more and of course there's huge inequality in the valuation of human life, but nor does it mean we should care less as some kind of liberal-minded compensation for all the inequality in the world.

You've got to make fun of the powerful, not the powerless. Not the victims. That's why Bill Hicks was great.

Ed more than 2 years ago

Beers in London...

Jacinta! Beers around London area? Every excuse to fuel the ol' liver.

On this note check Dave Mitchell's SoapBox (old episode, but there you are...) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJqEKYbh-LU - a slightly lighter note on the issue; then again, he's male.

Mike more than 2 years ago

x

Maybe I take the September 11th joke back. Now I've retired from comedy, I can do that. I can say "Oh, I wouldn't make that joke if I was doing comedy now." But I'm not sure if I do, I'm considering it...coz terrorism isn't this normal thing that happens to Americans every day and it's not gonna be more likely to happen if I beg for it to. It just isn't. I don't have that much sway with Bin Laden. Whereas rape is more likely to happen when boys laugh about it. It makes rape like sex. It makes rape normal. You can't make terrorism normal.

Jacinta more than 2 years ago

Sept 11

Sept 11th's the same as abortion, cancer, Love Parade type jokes. It's bit naughty. Okay, Love Parade's a bad example. Fukishima then. Rape jokes are different coz at least half the audience are women and let's be honest, most of those have been raped. But I'm not even saying they should be banned or anything weird like that, I am just saying if you do them, you should expect to be heckled and then not threaten the heckler with rape.....also, you guys are real precious about Sept 11th. I mean, I can understand it and all, but you'd never complain about a Fukishima joke, and ppl think that coz it was Americans who died we should care more - which we DO, it's racist of us, but we do, actually....also rape jokes always wallow in the rape, don't they? They really wallow in it. I wouldn't've wallowed in the people jumping out the window. They really wallow in it. They're like wallowing. So that's the difference. I'm not even against dead baby jokes, etc, I just hate them.

Jacinta more than 2 years ago

Hypocrisy

What's the difference between his comedic methods and yours? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXIdFtgU_aU Your comments about September 11th fall into exactly the same category as his.

Ed more than 2 years ago

First Thing

First learn how to write English prose.

chihhsing more than 2 years ago

Yeah, Mike

....I know you're right. I do think that rape jokes should be more offensive than rape jokes, though. Like, I really do. One in four women end up getting raped. All American men aren't gonna go to prison. If "I think it's funny when women get raped" is a meaningless joke, then "All American men are rapists" should be, too. The fact is it isn't. And I think that's coz rape jokes aren't meaningless - it's because people approve of rape. So when a guy does a rape joke, it becomes meaningless, coz the women in the audience should be grateful not to actually be raped.....but I know hardly anybody read my text. Nobody mentioned Tess at all. I thought everyone would rush out and buy a copy of Tess to find out for themselves just how brilliant it is...

Margarete's gonna be reading with me at Rakete on Thursday. I'm totally on her side about Frauenzeitschriften = Faschismus, even though I do read them, blowjob guides and everything. I think probably the Führer = Guide thing went too far, probably guide means Anleitung. But I still think it's okay. I think we're big enough and ugly enough to handle a few zu weit gegangen Nazivergleiche. I was thinking this morning on the train: maybe she shoulda gone further, maybe she shoulda been like: 'Guide = Girl Guide = Hitler Jugend." But that's just coz I'm on her side. When people say Muslims should reject headscarves, I'm all like: it's just a piece of fucking cloth, for fuck's sake.

Am gonna be back in London for the Olympics, btw

Jacinta more than 2 years ago

The Taz-article...

Talking about stirring up a shit-storm - or is it rather a storm of shit - in the "comments" section there? (i.e. here http://www.taz.de/Frauenmagazine-und-Sexismus/Kommentare/!c97571/ ) As wholeheartedly as I'd like to wallow alongside Margarete in indignation and disgust about "Frauenzeitschriften", this article and the associated comments in particular illustrate one simple fact: there is no room for more than one message in a provocative article (like yours, too - sorry to say).
The "common (wo)man" sees the "Reizwort" (like "Führer" or "rapist") and stops taking in any other messages altogether. It isn't the Anglo-German ambiguity between guide/leader/Führer that the TAZ-article is talking about. It is the "fascism" - in the truest sense of the word - which is at the heart of a message which proclaims authority over the colour and shape of your toe-nails. This seems to have bypassed almost everyone's brains in the heat of discussion over the proper use of the Oxford dictionary. Tedious.

Mike more than 2 years ago

That's nothing Mikey

Read my mate's Taz article about women's mags. She got 166, last time I counted. Google "Faschismus auf Hochglanzpapier."

Yasinta more than 2 years ago

25 comments?

Sorry, did I miss out on something? Who is David Deery?

Mike more than 2 years ago

To LBZ

I don't understand why you put "article" in quotes. It's clearly not and I even stated in the comment that you read through and responded to that it is in fact a blog, like it states above the blog column. Putting quotes on "article" doesn't really point to anything other than the fact that it's not an article.

Walter Crasshole more than 2 years ago

Oh, of course!

Let's all take a moment to apologize for having incorrectly read such a layered and thoughtful piece of prose. The depth and prodigious insight here clearly escaped many of the author's non-personal friends, those who read perhaps by chance. We've clearly just been silly. By insinuating many of us simpletons missed the embellishment, instead preferring a literal interpretation is comical. As if everyone unimpressed with such a well-intending post is simply irritated because we all know a guy in Kansas who never raped anyone and felt inclined to use this forum to come to his defense. This article was an irritation because it is a dumb lump of grievances filed in one tedious vehicle which never seems to bat out a thesis.

So yes, let's all apologize for having missed the point and applaud your efforts in speaking out against a nominal, blip-on-the-radar MTV career comedian no one in Berlin knows of. I for one feel immensely safer due to your insight.

Also interesting to learn this "article" was, in fact, proofread.

LBZ more than 2 years ago

Unreadable claptrap

That is all. Why does this woman have a column, again?

Karo more than 2 years ago

Rant

No one said "Comedy is not pretty" or "Comedy is meant to be lighthearted" or "Can't you take a joke" when Kramer from Seinfeld did his racist stand-up rant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r05XDOFUsQw

In fact, he ended up making a grovelling public apology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC26RI-Ria8&feature=related

No comedian doing a misogynist rant has ever had to grovel like that.

Benjamin Knight more than 2 years ago

Editor's note

I’d like to take a minute and say why I published this blog as Jacinta sent it (proofreading excepted). I felt I understood what point Jacinta was trying to make – that the words we use DO matter and that if rape is to be taken lightly, then anything else follows. Jacinta Nandi believes this and I believe this. Perhaps my error was my familiarity, being an American (and a male, I might add), with Daniel Tosh’s original comments and the original controversy surrounding them. Perhaps a little more exposition about the source of this controversy was necessary. But I also have faith that readers can see through the headline and realize that she was NOT ACTUALLY CALLING ALL AMERICAN MALES RAPISTS. This is strong, perhaps hyperbolic language to illustrate her point, no doubt, but it’s her point and it’s not a violent, defamatory (if read correctly) or reverse-misogynist. People are quick to jump to the defense of American males (which aren’t the real target of her blog) but few are quick to jump to the defense of those who may face constant belittlement and violent persecution because of gender. I hate pulling out the “parent” card, but how many people would be so callous about rape “jokes” if their daughter were the subject of one? Imagine that some comedian had actually said that “five people should rape [her] right now”. I realize that the whole topic is not an easy one, with free speech being a central component to the whole debate and how we use, when it is called upon, etc. But when comedians call upon people to rape, how is that different than Ugandan newspapers called for people to hang gay people?

Walter Crasshole more than 2 years ago

prettiness

You wouldn't defend someone physically threatening to murder a black audience member, just because they could. You wouldn't defend that. You defend rape coz you think rape is okay.

Jacinta more than 2 years ago

Comedy...

is not pretty.

Steve Martin more than 2 years ago

You have a platform.

Perhaps an article indicating the idiocy of this guy without persecuting a nation can be managed with a better angle. This fool is asking for exposure using offensive, insulting wording that is only designed to shock and enrage. You have fallen directly into his trap by mirroring his style of bullshit. He thinks he is being clever and insightful when in fact he has written a blog entry that makes no sense. As Taboos are slowly breaking down in our 24/7 culture, people are being more and more offensive in order to gain attention, you have given him attention with your article.

The comparisons you have made only further strengthen his argument that using things like rape in a context like this are ok. Its not. You, this David Deery guy and whatever dumbfuck comedian who wants to make remarks on rape should all have a little decorum. You know how to write. Ignore these idiots and go back to writing about something that means something. You have articles in EXBERLINER. Use your space for something that has meaning. You have a large platform, the rest of us don't.

Brewtank more than 2 years ago

MFDD

David is a great comedian, but that blog is despicable and beneath him.

From George Orwell, "Politics and the English Language": "(vi) Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous."

That quote is a bit out of context, but still - the point is you can break all the taboos and rules you like, but you're still responsible for what you say. Also, shock comedy is lazy and stupid and we should keep lazy, stupid people off the stage and not defend their right to be lazy and stupid.

Benjamin Knight more than 2 years ago

Brewtank

Okay, so David isn't actually that rapey, but he thinks rape jokes are okay, coz words are meaningless, here is his blog:

http://artschoolvets.com/blog/motherfuckindaviddeery/2012/07/13/rape-rape-rape-rape-rape/

I think - and I tried to make clear that this is what I thought in my blog - I think that words are meaningful, and I think we should only say them if we mean them. I think words have meaning. I don't believe words have no meaning. I only wish that threatening to rape women would get people half as upset - or a fucking quarter as upset - as calling an entire nation cunts does. But it doesn't. So I guess that proves how much of a "Taboobruch" rape jokes are.

Yacinta more than 2 years ago

yup, still confused

I have read, word for word, both your original article and this rushed 'disclaimer'. The first still remains to be a confused portrayal of a nation. This latest one is even more confusing than the last. I have attempted to read it twice and i still cannot take any meaning from what you are trying to say. You are scrambling to find ways to justify what you have said, in the way you said it. I think that may be a lost cause.

'If American comedians are allowed to "ironically" say they want to rape women, then non-American bloggers are allowed to "ironically" say all Americans are rapists.'

-I still don't know what you are trying to say. So this one guy, David Deery, has made wild jokes about rape and people laugh. To write an article attempting to link this guy to the rest of the american nation is absurd. How can his act and following reflect 250 million people? You then use an eye-snatching title that is undoubtedly going to get attention.

No one 'rapist' is the same, we are all individuals and regardless of our native persuasion, we will treat other people how we were taught to treat other people. I'm English by the way and i live in small town. My mother taught me respect and understanding. Maybe Mr.Deery's mother was a rapist.

brewtank more than 2 years ago

Thanks

Thanks for the response, jacinta. Some of the comments here are truly sickening and shameful

Tony more than 2 years ago

subject

If American comedians are allowed to "ironically" say they want to rape women, then non-American bloggers are allowed to "ironically" say all Americans are rapists. The fact that everyone has reacted like this proves that it isn't irony, it's just approval of rape.

My last comment was a bit verzweifelt and long and now I don't know how to delete it, but this is what I think.

jacinta more than 2 years ago

words

The whole point about the "All Americans are rapist cunts" of the title was that rape joke apologists like David Deery say "It's just words." You know? That's what David Deery wrote in his blog. So my point was that if words don't matter, if "I want to rape women" or "I think it is funny that you got raped" are meaningless sentences, then "All Americans are rapist cunts" is a meeningless sentence too.

However, looking at how angry everyone got at this sentence compared to how angry they get at rape jokes proves that words have power and that, rather than the words "I think rape is funny" not being offensive because they mean nothing, they are not offensive too people because women aren't important. If people got half as angry about sexism as they do about xenophobia, there wouldn't be any rape jokes. But they don't give a shit.

Nobody has even read my blog, nobody has even read one sentence apart from that I thought Americans are cunts. I thought everyone would be really convinced by my Tess arguments and stop doing rape jokes. That is what I genuinely thought. However, I think you are right, I think basically European men are just as much rapists as Americans, only Americans actually say what Europeans want to.

When David Deery says "Lady, get out of the comedy club" what he means is: if women don't want to be raped, they should kill themselves. That is what he thinks. That is what you men think. I fucking hate it. Like we should beg not to get raped? All this outrage coz I generalized about a nation? But if rape jokes aren't glorifying rape then generlaizing about a nation isn't generalizing isn't generalizing about a nation? Or words are only meaningless when the person saying them is white and male? Is that it? When a white male says "I think rape is really funny" it's meaingless coz he has power. I fucking hate it. Has it really come to this, that saying "Please, please, please don't rape me" is some kind of feminist statement.

David Deery, loads of Americans, they're meant to be my MATES. They're meant to be our friends. We have their numbers in our telephones. Okay, I lost my Handy but I am sure I got loads of yanks in my telephone book. They're meant to be our friends. And they want us to get raped, they wish we would get raped more often? They're not our fucking friends, they're our enemies.

I was gonna call it "David Deery is a rapist cunt" and then inside just write "What David? It's just words." But then I chickened out and made it more general. I wish I had now, nobody fucking read it anyway, nobody gves a shit. Basically the only way rape could be more socially acceptable was if they decriminalized it. When David says "Lady get out the comedy club" he means if you don't want to be raped kill yourself. If you don't accept rape then just go in a fucking hole and die. We're just fucking holes men can stick their penises inside. It's probably fantasy on my part to project it onto the Americans, European men are exactly the same

Jacinta more than 2 years ago

seriously II

I'd also like to add the following:

-I'm not American. As a European, I perfectly know that things like Santa Claus, Al Qaeda and Star Trek are only fictional and were created for entertainment purposes.
-Some American comedians are outstanding. Some others, like Chris Rock, could just fuck off.
-I hate such jokes and I think they should never be told.
-I'm European and I don't really think there's such a big difference between the two cultures. In some countries there are maybe stricter rules, but if you don't see Mario Barth going for a joke like that, this doesn't mean he wouldn't like to tell it. He simply cares too much about his career and his agent told him which lines are to cross and which ones aren't.
-Generalizations are kinda shitty in any case, because they tend to not include the "good" people, AKA the "I met a lot of cool americans" argument.

So why didn't you just keep it to comedians or artists without speaking of the entire american population? Did they all come from this kind of rapey culture? Really? Woody Allen? Mark Twain? The Grateful Dead? Seriously?

BorderReader more than 2 years ago

Al-Qaeda

This chick would probably get raped by members of Al-Qaeda as well and then, forgive me for stereotyping, beheaded. Inchallah

jess more than 2 years ago

seriously?

Anyway the correct spelling is "Guantánamo".

I totally prefer the articles in which you talk about blowjobs. Just a personal opinion though.

BorderReader more than 2 years ago

Wow...

Learn to write effectively and well, you useless cunt.

Lotte more than 2 years ago

Nationmaster

and a quote direct from nationmaster:

"The lack of a statistic for a country does not imply that they have none of the thing in question (airports, etc) or even that it has never been measured. You should consider our graphs only as comparisons of the countries that are included in the graph, not of all countries"

Things that originate on the internet ≠ 100% true (cf. wikipedia)

BM more than 2 years ago

unimpressed

5 minutes of offensive splurging nonsense. Dull, meaningless and neither comedic or insightful. Im unsure how this was even allowed to be publicised?

brewtank more than 2 years ago

my country 'tis of rapy

As an Ami who's been here for 10 years and speaks fluent German, I have to say, Jacinta, you hit the nail right on the head. Statistically there may be a few of us who aren't rapey as the above comments try and whine about, but these are statistically unimportant. Outliers, anomolies, freaks. America was, and still is, founded on the idea that rape is cool, rape is winning, rape rocks. The key is you just have to say "x greeted me as a liberator" when you do it. The Native Americans were wearing mini skirts when we landed. Africans were flirting with us. Mexico shouldn't have been lying there drunk. Vietnam was a whore anyway. Iraq was asking for it. And if it turns out that we raped some innocent child along the way...well, oops, we're not responsible for that...just doing my job...'you can't convict an entire continent' (no no, America'd never do that) ...I'm going to defend rapists, because I love my country...did I mention the US was founded on Freedom? Yes, Men are endowed (preferably well-endowed) by their creator with the right to rape... and women, Native Americans, Africans, Mexicans and mostly everybody else, can just go and get raped. In short, God's country.
I would add, however, that it is no coincidence that we were founded by England, and populated by people from every country on the planet (and even a few from other planets.) Anyway, rape sells. Nazi cock vagina rape child porn nigger animal sodomizer, USA! USA!. That should get some hits.

John Denver more than 2 years ago

Rape and Racism

Rape is wrong. Agreed.
But racism... hmmm????

Elke more than 2 years ago

Rapes (per capita) (most recent) by country

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita

#15 Germany

USA doesn't rate in the top 50.

Things that originate in Jacinta's Brain ≠ the world outside it.

Mr. Research more than 2 years ago

Wow

As an American male who just moved to Berlin, I find this article hilarious. Yes, it's totally true. We're all very proud of our rapey culture and rapey tendencies. How did you know?

And yes, comedians MUST make important points in their work, and not just be silly and frivolous like, oh I don't know, comedians. That's exactly what I require from my humorists. Just like my music. If it doesn't have an earnest and completely politically-correct point to it, why bother listening?

I've got a soothing prescription for you, Jacinta, to help you deal with your very obvious issues about, well, life in general: go rape yourself.

Am I allowed to say that?

henry more than 2 years ago

I agree with you on the Tosh issue, but not on "The Americans"

I agree with your thoughts on artistic freedom and it's artists who have to criticise Tosh. Tucholsky famously asked what satire should be allowed to say and answered: everything. But satire should also ask itself what it wants to say. There are reasons why Germans should not make Holocaust jokes and men should not make rape jokes. Good humor is always a weapon of the weak fighting the strong. The other way around it is just not funny, laughing "at" people. Tosh should be free to make any joke he likes to, but people should also feel the freedom as much as the obligation not to listen to him.
But: By convicting an entire continent of people of an ill-defined delict and then condemning them for being convicted is not making things clearer or easier, and is not making more people listen.

Jakob more than 2 years ago

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